Sunday Discussion Thread – 7/16/17

It’s a big baseball Sunday as we’re wrestling-free. Share your post-ASB predictions, and hey – chat on any of our brand new audio also as we have a NEW Survey Says talking 1989, our first PodBlast on the POP feed and a bevy of wrestling shows from PWO to get your week started.

117 thoughts on “Sunday Discussion Thread – 7/16/17

  1. Happy Birthday to PTBN legend (? sure) Anthony Armento, who got to watch Matz give up 9 ER in the first inning at the Mets game today.

    1. Reading the results and I always thought beefcake beating perfect at mania 6 was his first televised loss. I know not everyone got the msg network but still interesting to read. Also hart Martel going 21 min doesn’t sound bad but yeah not much else on that card sounds good.

      1. Hart vs. Martel was the only decent match on the show, which featured Hercules vs. Black Bart, Koko B. Ware vs. Frenchy Martin, Jim Powers vs. Iron Mike Sharpe, Tugboat vs. Pez Whatley, and Brutus Beefcake vs. Dino Bravo

  2. Regarding GWWE, how have you guys approached 1960s-70s WWWF workrate compared to the modern era? Do you grade on a curve given the time or no? Interested in hearing everyone’s rationale.

      1. I’ve been basing a lot of mine off how the crowd is reacting to their moves. Like Bruno is just punching and kicking but they’re going ballistic so it’s working.

      2. I think it’s curious that people are happy to admit that they “grade on a curve” when it comes to different eras or styles, but when people say it about women’s matches it’s perceived as a slight or like you’re giving them an unfair advantage.

    1. I haven’t watched enough from that era for the project yet, but I’ve found myself concentrating much more than usual on how over people are and the reactions they get. As much as you can tell considering audio quality, that is. So Bruno gets beaucoup bonus points for being received like a god among men, for example.

    2. That’s where I’m afraid I’ll have little to no ground to cover. The 60’s guys in particular I am woefully unfamiliar with outside Bruno and Gorilla.

      1. And even when you dig into it, there just isn’t footage available for some guys, whereas you can literally watch modern guys’ entire careers front to back on the Network.
        Like I’ll see matches on History of WWE that sound really significant, but there’s no way to watch them.

    1. I just don’t see it. He had a good first six months, but after he dropped the IC title he did very little, got injured. Came back, had a hot feud with Sable but it didn’t mean much in ring and he was playing second fiddle between her and Jackie, and by the end of that he was pretty much done and gone.

    2. I haven’t spent much time thinking about him but I’d say he won’t be on my list. His 96 was solid with good matches against austin,goldust, and triple h. After coming back from his injury I thought his jerk character was great just not sure he has enough to crack my top 100.

    3. I am a Marc Mero apologist and will likely do a pod blast on him soon.

      I thought his feud with Hunter was pretty fun, his match with Austin at KOTR was quite good and I believe he was one of the few to get pretty good in ring stuff out of Goldust in 1996. His character was a tad bland but his package with Sable and the music was very memorable. His moveset was really good too, pretty much lifted right from his late WCW days. He was a strong promo too.

      Then his heel run was tons of fun, starting with the match against Leif Cassidy at Final Four before he went down to injury. After he returned and got his feet under him, things heated right up. I loved him outing Sal Sincere and then his team/feud with Goldust and Luna was good and forgotten work, with the three of them bullying Sable until Mero finally stood up to them after some dissension.

      His match with Sable at Over the Edge was a masterpiece of heel work and one of my all time favorite Attitude Era moments. His team with Jackie was really fun too, just two brash true heel assholes during the shades of gray era.

      He also held to a retirement stip! He vowed he would leave if he lost to Duane Gill and that is exactly what he did.

      I need to revisit some matches to see what his top stuff was but I anticipate he has a shot of sneaking in for me on the back of his character work and workrate.

      1. The sable over the edge match really was just amazing heel work from the promo prematch all the way through the celebration just great stuff.

      2. I really enjoyed the heel run, but he was just so tepid as a face. That said, his move set was definitely a breath of fresh air at the time. I’m not as down on him as many, so I could see him sneaking in.

  3. I’ll toss one out, Big John Studd. He wasn’t big from a workrate perspective but he had a solid run between 82-86. The ’89 comeback went nowhere but it was fun to see him as a face if even briefly. He has some 70’s work I’m not as familiar with though.

    1. I do like Studd in general but I don’t think he makes it. If you compare him to a contemporary that he is often tied with in King Kong Bundy, I would go Bundy all day. Studd lacks the big time resume of moments Bundy has.

      His biggest match was likely Andre at WM1 and it kind of sucked and honestly I felt more of the haircut heat was on Patera anyway.

      A solid hand but not a Top 100 contender for me.

    2. I’d say no on studd but he had moments like the mania match with Andre or even the battle royal at 2 with refrigerator perry. But just can’t name any great matches he had.

        1. Are you guys posting a thread for tomorrow early for the first night of G1. I’m staying up for it even though I have work lol

  4. Here’s a guy I hadn’t thought much about, but I just put on WWE/ECW Head to Head- RVD. I suspect he’ll land somewhere around 40ish for me.

    1. Yeah I figure he will be around there somewhere. Innovative worked, super over with the crowd thanks to tremendous charisma and connection with fans. Some really good matches on his resume as well vs. Hardy and Cena.

    2. He’s going to be on my list not sure where 40ish sounds about right. The cena match from one night stand, I liked the three way with Austin and angle from no mercy 01. Ladder matches with hardy and Eddie. elimination chamber and ladder matches he always stood out with some of his moves.

      1. Vs. Pedro Morales from 12/7/85 Boston Garden is impressive because it’s a really good match against a guy who didn’t have really good matches anymore (and there isn’t many on tape from his long IC title run in the early 80s for that matter ) It’s on the Network

    1. He was a supporting player to some big angles but never really had a feud of his own in the WWE unless you count when he split from Muraco. He was fine in his role but I don’t think it was that hard of a role as Piper’s second. His ring work was deteriorating by the time ’86 rolled around as well. I don’t think he makes my top 100

  5. Are the any guys while putting together the GWWE list that you are finding to be a lot lower than originally thought? Because Don Muraco is dropping down mine quite a bit.

  6. So far I’m trying to narrow down my GWWE list to 100 and then I plan to rank them after that. I’m having a hard time deciding whether Bayley, Sasha, and Becky should make my list and if so where. They all had great runs in nxt but their main roster stuff has been up and down. Charlotte is a lock as she has been the most consistent out of the four. I would love to know you guys thoughts.

    1. Tough calls for sure… I think Charlotte is likely to be in and the others will depend on everyone around them rising or falling. Sasha feels the closest, then Bayley, then Becky.

          1. I kindly disagree. She was head and shoulders above her competition. You don’t think she could compete in other eras? I think she was tremendously athletic and tough as nails. She will be my top rated woman on the list.

          2. I read the stuff about Sweet Georgia Brown. It’s tough. However, there is plenty of dirt to go around for all the top stars.

          3. “She could kick half the guy’s asses”

            What’s her toughness based on? Bullying girls and pimping them out? Reciting old Jim Ross anecdotes and buying into the WWE narrative of wrestlers is the exact opposite of what this project is about.

            Bad worker, bad promo. Hugely overrated. She sucks.

          4. Moolah was the shit to me. I thought she was awesome for a female wrestler. I’m not as big a wrestling nerd as some, although I give an effort to be. As far as the Sweet Georgia Brown incident, I’m trying to separate the two, although what she did was pretty bad.

            Snuka, Benoit, Hogan to a smaller scale, Patterson, there are a lot of people who have done some sketchy things that will probably make your list, right? Why pick and choose?

            So I have a different opinion from everyone on this website. I know. Its too hard to grasp the concept of a disagreement in opinion at the Place To Be Nation.

    2. I agree that Charlotte is a lock and will be highest on my list. Bayley and Sasha will likely make it, as they had the great matches with each other in NXT. Becky may be between 85-100 if she makes it on the list.

  7. Okay, ESPN. We get it. Aaron Judge is awesome right now. But there is an actual game going on. Also, Mookie Betts says to shut up.

    No wonder people say ESPN is swirling the drain.

    1. I’ll only watch limited products produced by ESPN. Live sporting events, a few 30 for 30s, and those Make-A-Wish spots. That’s it. I can’t handle front-running, shameless ass-kissing.

  8. How about Ted DiBiase? I think he is an interesting case as he lacks really high level matches that could put him in that upper tier.

    Obviously moments and character work carry him but he may be someone that comes in lower than you may initially think?

        1. Parv and I, at one time, were going to review the 10 or so matches he had against Savage — that feud went into the summer, cage match, etc post Mania.

          I think it’s safe to say that was his best stuff in WWF

    1. Incredibly I have JBL a few spots ahead of him right now. I think Ted’s the better character but his PPV production is putrid. JBL has at least a couple of all timers.

      1. I’m really curious to see where jbl ends up on people’s list because I’m with you he has some good stuff that I feel like people overlook sometimes just because they didn’t like his long reign as champ or the fact that he’s a jerk etc.

        1. When you start to scrutinize guys you start to see that there are a TON of guys without a truly great match to their name. Big names too. JBL will always have that incredible I Quit match with Cena among others.

    1. I can’t name a classic highlight match, and he was a one-note promo. I remember liking the beginning of his face run and thinking at the time that he could be a fun one-month throwaway title contender when Edge was champ, but he falls off the end of the list.

    2. I remember, after getting back in the product in late 2004, that he had a lot of cool heel vibe where there were some that wanted him to get a huge push because he was one of the few refreshing characters.

      He didn’t make my initial top 133 list.

        1. I really enjoy those revival tags but this match is close to five stars for me because it’s so I novation for 2002. When you have 4 all time greats in there, it’s phenomenal

          1. No Mercy 2002 is a great show when you add the Taker-Brock HIAC which in my opinion is the best HIAC match. I have that rated at 4.5

          2. Yeah that’s a shame because it’s great to watch this show. I’m watching the divas match before the HIAC and after going crazy for that tag, they chant we want puppies. SMFH

          3. Oh I agree, as I age, I enjoy less of JR. He’s just not my cup of tea

  9. I’m really having a problem ranking guys before the 80s. Partly because I’m not as familiar with them, of course. Partly because that was before it was a truly national company. And partly because I’ve been bored whenever I try to watch their supposed “best” stuff.

    1. Yeah I hear you for sure. I think as long as you put the effort in and aren’t just dismissive at the end of the day the list is what you view it to be. If you feel you can defend it, then go with what you feel comfortable doing.

      1. I’m also trying to view things from two different angles. First, how the wrestlers were perceived at the time and second, how their stuff has held up over time. I think that second criteria hurts guys prior to the 80s. It will also likely hurt a lot of the Attitude Era guys, as well.

        1. I don’t know, there plenty of Backlund, Valentine, Slaughter, Patterson, and Patera that more than holds up.

          I think the Titans of Wrestling put a spotlight on this stuff that is oft-overlooked because it’s pre-Hogan.

    1. Made my first cut of top 150, but outside looking in right now. I don’t think there’s enough surrounding his good ’96 stuff and the ’92 rumble/mania era to beat guys out.

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