Daily Discussion Thread – 7/10/17

Join us today to discuss the fallout of Great Balls of Fire! How does the results lead into Raw tonight and SummerSlam around a month away?

Some morning audio:

Our Vantage Point #39 looks at Jim Cornette, gives the top/bottom four belt designs and reviews an AWA show from their dying days.

Lucha Afterground discusses the end of the first round of the Cueto Cup and what the final rounds of the tournament might have in store for the viewer!

PodBlast™ from Timothy and Quentin on a recent DDT main event:

Finally, a new This Week in Wrestling from Pete and Timothy talking NXT, NJPW in USA and CWF:

170 thoughts on “Daily Discussion Thread – 7/10/17

  1. After sleeping on it, overall thoughts on the show? For a July PPV I thought it was pretty good. No stinkers and some really good stuff. The Reigns/Braun post match was … a bit much… but I liked the match and loved the finish.

    1. Really good show. But it underdelivered compared to the card on paper. It was good when it looked like it was in Great B-Show territory. Either Rollins-Wyatt or Miz-Ambrose needed to deliver and both matches were just there.

    2. I actually liked the Roman-Braun postmatch philosophically.

      There’s always a ton of complaints that WWE gets too caught up in boring real world stuff like HR reviews and legalese. It’s fun to once in a while go in the complete opposite direction and get some Attitude era cartoon craziness once in a while.

    3. I recently got promoted at work last month so since then, my work schedule has gotten a lot heavier hence not being able to watch the show live last night.

      Working through it this morning…Rollins/Bray was pretty solid. Liked Bray outwrestling Seth throughout.

      Cass squashing Enzo was fine.

      Tag Iron man was really good, almost bordering on great.

      Sasha/Bliss was solid enough even with the countout finish bc it makes Bliss look intelligent by just taking the count out bc she would still be champion.

      IC match was decent. Miz going over was the right call.

      Starting up Reigns/Strowman now.

    4. I agree with pretty good. The possible Reigns/Braun double turn I enjoyed. I liked how they had a match, that seemed like it wasnt scheduled. I really liked the Joe vs Brock match. I would like to see them go at it again.

    5. I enjoyed the show. The Roman angle should lead to a double turn. I loved joe/Brock, last 10 minutes of iron man was great. Sasha hasn’t looked that good in a long time and has to be Alexa’s best match yet.

      One would think they have to do a 4 way with joe-Brock-reigns and Braun at summerslam? That would be a stiff fest.

      By the way who did Finn piss off?

    6. What stood out to me was that some of the matches had some heat/meaning behind them. I think the PPVs normally are fairly good in-ring, but it often feels like it all happens in a vacuum and nothing really matters all that much. It’s just feels like a bunch of people thrown together. I actually felt invested in some of these feuds.

    7. It was a solid show. I think my rating on Brock/Joe is lower than most as I thought it was good not great. I also thought last night was the weakest of the Reigns/Strowman matches and I was not a fan of the post match stuff. So is Strowman a face now?!?! I really enjoyed the Woman’s title match and the Iron Man match.

    8. Underwhelming compared to the card on paper. It was a parade of 2-3.something star matches, hampered by some truly awful finishes. Neville/Tozowa was bad enough that I’m wondering if someone got hurt and they went home early. Bray/Rollins with thumb to the eye. Sasha/Bliss with the count-out, but at least the post-match brawl retained their heat and it’s clear their feud will continue.

      Reigns losing in the equivalent of a flash pin for an ambulance match is hysterical, but really stupid when you consider how they’re trying to put over the brutality of the gimmick/their bitter rivalry as a whole. Not to mention I suppose I’ve always been under the impression that the loser had to be physically incapacitated and loaded into the ambulance, so the fact that they did a finish making me question the rules of a fucking ambulance match just kind of highlights how dumb of a stipulation it is.

      (And the post-match stuff was ridiculous, but not ridiculous enough. I needed Braun smashing through the roof, emerging in a cloud of dry ice, then getting speared by Reigns out of nowhere. And, like, run over 70 times or more. As it stands, the shit just dragged.)

      They sort of booked themselves into a corner with Brock/Joe. I wanted to see Joe more protected, but they seem dead-set against continuing it beyond this show. Anything short of a clean win for Brock probably would have hinted too much in the direction of a rematch, so I get it. Still, Brock just suddenly coming back with the F-5 and getting the pin after a six minute match left a bad taste in my mouth. It was like, “Wow this Joe is really taking it to Brock, he must be pretty special… oh never mind.” We’re not quite at LOL Cena Wins! levels with Brock, but it’s looking like he either isn’t physically capable or sufficiently motivated enough to go even ten minutes anymore. But he’s the only star they have, so *shrug*

      I dunno. Didn’t hate the match, but that weak finish erased some of the goodwill they’d built up with Joe.

      These types of outcomes – fluke wins, old school heel cheating, count-outs, finishers ACTUALLY finishing – aren’t inherently wrongheaded or anything. It’s just going to take a lot of reconditioning when the fanbase has been trained to expect a million kick-outs and false finishes before a match is over. Jarring adjustment when all of that gets dumped on one show.

      1. The more I thought about the finish of the ambulance match the more I thought how dumb it really made Reigns look – and to date they had a really great build. It was almost a cartoon – he misses the spear and flies (it was a great dive) right into the open door clean.

        1. Right? At the time, I could not stop laughing. But wow did they ever undercut themselves with that. I could maybe buy it if indeed we were getting a double turn, but Reigns is never ever going heel, so he just looks like a fool.

    9. I really enjoyed the show. The only match I actively disliked was Miz-Ambrose. Everything else was logical, physical and had me invested in some way or another. Brock-Joe was awesome, even though I was disappointed how short it was. Loved the little stuff like Brock actually defending a choke properly by fighting the hands, and Joe defending the knee strikes. The explosive slide-between-the-legs German was a great reminder of Brock’s athleticism.

      The ambulance match wasn’t as good as Roman and Braun’s other encounters, but it was as close to really good as an ambulance match can get.

      And the tag and women’s matches were tremendous, I felt. *** for the women and ***3/4 for the tag title, from my perspective.

  2. Can’t wait for 455 tonight.

    The match before the break is awesome. There are definitely some duds in there. But I had fun watching this one.

    Question, obviously there wasn’t a SummerSlam in 86. But if there was, this would be about the time the would have started building towards it. Does anyone want to fantasy book some matches for the fictitious SS86?

      1. I think it would have had the same Main Event, but there is no IC title match, no tag team title match because they also had a card in KC that night. So the Big Event is only a portion of the roster and there are a few dogs. I think we could put together a much better card.

        From the big event I would say keep:

        Hogan vs Orndorff
        Studs/Buddy/Heenan vs Machines
        Steamboat vs. Jake
        JYD vs. Adonis

        From there we throw the rest out and build a sick card.

        1. Savage vs. Steele for the IC Title
          Bulldogs vs. Shiek & Volkoff for the Tag Titles
          Hart Foundation vs. Rougeaus or Killer Bees
          Kamala vs. Cpl. Kirchner (Quick squash to get him over for his run with Hogan)

        1. Yeah. And they put them up with no missing episodes. Including the wwe vs ecw episode prior to one night stand. I think there’s a few more to be added at the end of the series but for the most part it’s complete

          1. Ep.8 Punk’s TV debut at Hammerstein. Also the show with Batista/Show that the crowd shits on.

          2. This is one i’m really interested in. Plus I think there were some gaps in torrents of the complete run going around (maybe one of the first couple episodes).

            I really want to see this one.

          3. It’s epic. And it would have been so easy to follow that recipe with the show going forward, but alas…

      1. I wonder why the didn’t just do every episode through the end. I mean if you are going ’09, you might as well go through ’10 when it finishes up. Not trying to complain but just a thought.

    1. Us old RSPWFA2 people can relive the time ECW was canceled and replaced by a show called NXT, which will focus on the “NeXT Generation” of wrestlers!

      1. I enjoyed the initial season of nxt. But I totally hate myself for saying that I rooted for Otunga to win it the entire time. For the life of me I can’t remember why.

          1. I THINK I had Heath Slater. Does that mean I won? Even if today I can’t tell him apart from Curt Hawkins?

      1. I debate it every now and then but I’m busier now than I was a few years ago. Fridays in the fall are usually the worst since I work 2 jobs and 14 hour days

  3. Interesting thing I forgot about. Watching the first episode of the new ecw, and kurt angle using the rear naked choke as a finisher in ecw because it was illegal to use it in wwe. But now joe uses it as his finisher. Hmm.

  4. I’m watching SummerSlam 88 on the network (which I believe is the ppv version which I’ve never seen), Was Vince trying his hand at promoting Boxing? after every match you get either a promo for Survivor Series or a Fight that would take place on Nov. 7th

    1. Sugar Ray Leonard vs. Donny LaLonde. Leonard won easy not much of a fight and obviously wasn’t a financial success as they didnt dip in boxing promotions again

  5. Pretty cool that the WWECW stuff dropped. I was completely out of WWE at that point, and that got me back in. An easy watch while doing cardio.

    1. Yeah I always enjoyed it too and I think it will be even more fond to look back at without the angst of THIS ISN’T THE REAL ECW that permeated a lot of discussion at the time.

      1. Lio seems like a 205 Live guy, provided the show still has a future.

        Dijak I assume will go fairly soon. Don’t they usually have a PC class announced in like Sept/Oct. My guess is that he gets a sendoff at BOLA.

  6. Just finished up the CMLL Universal Championship tournament Block B.

    Next week’s final of Volador Jr. vs Ultimo Guerrero could be a MOTYC if both guys are feeling it and don’t slide into their bad habits.

    I’ll definitely post a link to the final when it’s available next week.

      1. Isn’t the Cena/Khali match supposedly better? Khali is completely in a blindspot for me. I remember him coming in right as i was falling out of the product and i remember the botched first prison match where he had to be subbed out. That was it.

        1. vs HHH at Summerslam 08 you’ll be astounded. After the match is over you’ll be staring like “How did those two.. do that match?”

    1. Having not followed the product at the time, this was a reminder how awesome the recaps were before a PPV match. Instantly caught up. it also took me a minute to realize this is GOOD JBL on commentary. His highlight for me is him putting over how magnificent it is to see Khali gingerly climbing over a 16 (or 20) foot bamboo ladder.

      Cole lets us know that there are razor sharp spikes at the top of the prison….but the goal is to climb over and they aren’t actually a thing. Also Cole lets us know this is Khali’s backyard, which is a really weird upbringing, because this prison with the timed gates is the p-i-t-s.

      Actual match action is Khali-good I guess. I liked the straps being introduced (i’m not sure how that’s supposed to help them climb?) and Batista does a nice job in the underdog role. Of course big pop for the jump – that was great. Khali is displeased with himself for climbing down so f’n slow and not jumping (i guess).

          1. I thought the same. Like he HAS to end up with that belt down the road.

          2. I’m not sure if he’ll hold it or not, but could certainly see him engaged around it.

  7. There was a weird sort of competition on 2007 PPVs to see who could drag the best match out of Khali. WWE managed to make hiding his limitations a science. There’s very rarely an outright bad Khali match that year. Even the Hornswoggle one was just an angle.

      1. Stream of consciousness for ECW 08 (opening match):

        -Rabid crowd for Sandman’s entrance
        -Highlights of Sandman hitting Kelly Kelly with the cane – filed under things that would never happen post Benoit.
        -Sandman busted himself open with the can
        -This is like peak roids era WWE (Test would make Jinder blush)
        -Muted crowd chants (guessing this was taped originally anyway, can’t remember if they were still live)
        – A barbed wire table 9 minutes into the episode
        – shoot cane shots and test wiping dreamer’s blood on his chest
        – Kelly Kelly is Sunny 20 years later
        – Wow tommy dreamer bends kelly kelly over his knee and spanks her repeatedly with a bloody hand. I mean like 20 times.
        – “You sold out chants” for Heyman
        – Heyman’s goons put dreamer through the barbed wire in the payoff there. I remember his turn w/ Big Show (i thought it sucked at the time as really wanted him to be a babyface, but i get it now with much hindsight)

        1. Interesting – they showed a bit of this with no commentary and then showed a replay back from a (purported) commercial of the same thing so looks like there’s some bonus footage (it sucked).

          1. Yeah that was an insane night and I probably the point where Vince decided to officially kill the original idea for the ECW rebirth and switch to what it became.

          2. Did they just tape the one episode here? Seems like a short night for the crowd then.

      2. I actually really dug the early episodes of the reboot. Felt different and more Paul-influenced. I think the combination of the RVD suspension and the Lashley move/push drove me away.

  8. Looking forward to going through the 06 episodes of ECW. Especially the August 1 one with Punk’s debut and the awful Big Show vs Batista Match where the New York fans crap all over it.

    1. I’d never pay for it but I bet they still make a decent amount, unless fans are still really pissed over paying for Mayweather vs. Pacquaio

  9. Finally jus getting around to this! How is Roman anything but the biggest heel in WWE trying to murder Braun Stroman? Also, Brock vs. Joe was awesome, and just left me wanting more.

  10. So wondering..you think we get Finn/miz at summerslam? Maybe gallows and Anderson go face and join the fight against the miztourage? I think hardys move into the revival, wouldn’t be surprised if bo and Curtis win tag titles…eh fantasy booking

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