PTBN Discussion Thread & WWF IYH: Mind Games 1996 Live Watch – 8/27/17

293 thoughts on “PTBN Discussion Thread & WWF IYH: Mind Games 1996 Live Watch – 8/27/17”

1. Back from vacation and all caught up on wrestling looking forward to talking some mind games later. Might not be here right at the start but I’ll catch up with you guys.

   1. Welcome back bud! Missed ya around these parts!

2. PTBN Fantasy Draft tonight!

   1. Have my work league Wednesday night and friends league next weekend. Glad we waited since guys like Edelman and ware are now done for the season. Always hate doing drafts early in august when you know guys are going to go down in the preseason.

      1. Agreed. I am in two and both are this week. In person auction draft on Friday night. Any draft before week three of preseason feels so early.

3. Can’t believe the Network live feed is showing Road Wild 1998. Good on them though for thinking outside the box.

   1. They have been mixing it up a lot more lately for sure, especially on “Flashback Friday”.

      1. This Friday is a unique mix of the 5-17-93 RAW, The October 92 SNME, In Your House 4, SummerSlam 1992 and the Beyond the Ring of Bret Hart Dungeon Collection.

         1. Wow that is quite diverse, and exactly what the stream should be during random downtime/days

            1. Saturday’s program has a running theme with them streaming the first four Mae Young Classic episodes and then various programs highlighting the Women/Divas.

            2. They must have had a new hire recently for a Network runner.

         2. They finally went random with the stream.

            1. Only took them 3 years.

               Wow, the Network has been around 3 1/2 years. That’s crazy. And they’ve only scratched the surface of content to add. And yet it still feels like an embarassment of riches.

            2. All of that is dead on, it is amazing and promising and frustrating all at once.

            3. Example: Look at how sparse the AWA section is. There is a ton that could be added their alone.

            4. Right and a lot of that was digitized for 24/7.

            5. And they still haven’t added Saturday Night yet

            6. Or any Main Event, or Worldwide, or Pro.

               And how about Wrestling Challenge, All American, Superstars post 1990 that doesn’t need its banners blurred out.

            7. Mind boggling. Wrestling treasury.

            8. If they could only untangle the legal quagmire that is Memphis.

            9. Doesn’t Lawler own the tapes now?

            10. I wonder what the next mass content dump will be.

            11. Word is Thunder and Heat

            12. Heat will be cool, especially post Smackdown when it became its own little universe.

            13. Excited for Thunder… I am up to October 97 in my WCW chrono watch so I can just weave that right in.

            14. When they add Thunder and Heat I will feel like I can do a proper 1998 rewatch for all three promotions.

            15. Debut Thunder episode Live Watch could be a fun one to do down the road.

            16. Thunder starts up in January of 98 , right?

            17. Yes

            18. I like that they have added more house shows from the 80s recently

            19. Especially for the price for it.

            20. I know, wish I could remember how much it is. They really need to remind us more of the monthly cost.

            21. I still say they fucked up including the big four at the start. Should have been $10/mo and then an additional $20 for the Big Four. Still would have been a steal. Too late now…

            22. You think it’ll stay $10 a month for good?

            23. Probably for a while, maybe go up a few bucks at some point.

4. Update on Cavs/Celtics

   https://t.co/uIXbFYc9nS

   1. I bet the celts just give them their 2019 first rd pick and all this is settled. If it’s true that the celts were up front with Isaiahs injury.

      1. They should just give the pick, they are in good shape and Kyrie is worth it.

         1. And it’s not like Thomas is going to miss the year. Even if he doesn’t come back to December or January the Cavs are still going to be right at the top of the east with the Celts.

5. In 1997 if you had told me I would be doing a fantasy draft with Kevin Kelly my head may have exploded.

   1. Feel free to give us updates on any surprising picks or terrible picks etc.

      1. KK is picking #1 and I am #2

         1. Who are you thinking about picking?

            1. David Johnson or Bell, whoever doesn’t go.

            2. Had Johnson last year. Basically won my league because of him. And Bell is awesome to have especially if he stays healthy.

            3. Yeah I was debating Antonio but I don’t trust Ben to stay healthy all year and Bell is less dependent.

   2. Or Kevin Kelly narrating your Christmas play for that matter.

      “How ’bout, fuck you Scott. Fuck you Justin. Is that a better take?”

      Life is strange.

      1. Right? WTF.

6. The Network still needs a Randomizer option. Like a Shuffle playlist. You get a Nitro followed by a Tuesday Night Titans followed by a Swerved and then an MSG House Show from 1981. It would be nuts!

   1. I would never turn it off lol

   2. This has come up before, but my favorite suggestion was a late night clip show of the most bonkers out-of-context promos and interviews from any promotion and any year. Throw that up on the live stream to hook the college kids/stoners. It might be too labor-intensive to really justify the effort, but still cheaper than a lot of the shitty ass original shows nobody watches.

      1. Luckily they’ve cut back on the original stuff and pumped out more from the library.

7. Going to fire up Mind Games in the next 5-10 minutes or so. Short show so even if we start closer to 9pm we are good.

   1. I’m looking forward to it. Never watched the whole show. But boy do I love the main event.

      1. Try not to doze off during Taker vs Goldust.

         1. I make no promises.

   2. I’m already paused on mankinds face ready to go

   3. Roku shows it at 115 min…little longer show than I remember it being.

      1. Yah just a touch under two hours, we can wait until we have a quorum and then fire up.

         1. I’m ready

            1. I’m ready as well!

      2. I love my Roku. I have like 5 of those things across the house.

         1. Us too… four, one on each TV

8. Let’s start at 8:50!

9. ONE MINUTE WARNING

10. Everyone ready to roll?

    1. Ready

    2. Ready

    3. Go

    4. Do it!

11. DO IT! MANKIND!

12. I haven’t watched the Raws in a while but this Mankind match always seemed to come out of nowhere.

    1. Guess it was bc he won against Taker in the boiler room brawl the month before

       1. Yeah good point.

    2. This was around the time when RAW would be preempted post SummerSlam for the US Open, that might be why.

    3. It does stick out when you’re looking at Shawn’s 1996 title defenses, but I guess that’s the sort of thing the In Your House brand was for.

    4. I guess a rematch with Vader would have been another option

       1. I like the match, just felt out of left field.

          1. Yeah the match is great but like you said it really comes out of nowhere all of sudden one weeks it’s announced mankind is facing hbk.

13. That CGI skull is creepy.

14. Was Vader supposed to get the belt either at Summerslam or in a rematch here? Might that explain the random Mankind match? Or rumor and innuendo?

    1. Survivor Series wasn’t it?

       1. That would make a lot more sense than a throwaway Sept. PPV. Just keep Shawn in a holding pattern ’til then.

15. First PPV in this building, I believe.

16. Tony Garea Rules!

    Oh those wacky Philly Mutants.

17. “Vince McMahon for God” sign behind Vince.

18. Is Savio also in the ptbn fantasy league?

    1. Lol imagine?

19. Kevin looking as handsome as ever

    1. He’s pretty ageless actually.

20. I always liked Savio’s theme. Also, Perfect on commentary is fun.

21. Look! Future Sunday Night Heat competitor Tommy Dreamer is in the front row!

22. Aside from the hair, Bradshaw doesn’t look all that different.

    1. He’s a tad skinnier for obvious reasons.

       1. Ah, that too, sure.

23. I like this commentary team… classic Vince, douche bag Perfect and angry, petulant JR.

    1. Classic Vince announcer is in my childhood wheelhouse.

       1. I am so looking forward to 1996 Vince McMahon’s unbridled enthusiasm for Shawn Michaels.

          1. Never heard erections called unbridled enthusiasm

          2. OH YEEEAH! THE MOST FLAMBOYANT!! THE MOST CHARASMATIC!!! THE MOST ATHLETIC WWF CHAMPION, OF AAAAAALLLL TIIIIIME!!

24. Was their a storyline with wippleman reffing? Or was he just doing one of the many jobs he did over the years

    1. He was just a ref for a few years… I think 96 – 99 maybe?

25. ECW chant? In Philadelphia? You don’t say…

26. If Savio never turned heel he may have made my GWWE Top 100… I liked him a lot as a face.

    1. The man still has a PPV main event in his future man!

       1. They should have just announced him, making him a surprise took all the wind out of it.

27. Sandman Shoots brother! 😉

28. You totally believe the ECW crew being there was legit the way it was done.

    1. Except for the fact that Vince makes blatant reference to it on commentary.

       1. Not really…never calls it ECW by name.

          1. True, but he still makes more acknowledgement of them then he ever would before.

    2. As a 12 year old I thought it was legit and I was mad how dare these guys start shit with my wwf

29. Bradshaw might be getting some receipts here, damn

30. PTBN Draft Update: KK took DJ so I took Bell.

31. Spinning heel kick is about a year away from becoming the “it” move of the WWF. Everybody started doing it all of a sudden.

    1. A lot of educated feet out of nowhere!

       1. Those feet would need a few more degrees before learning the superkick circa 2001

32. When was the last strap match? Punk vs Umaga? Could be one more recent just nothing is coming to mind

33. That is the distraction roll up ending of strap matches.

34. I liked that match, finish aside.

35. He’s so old we’re not even playing these clips in slow motion

36. Cornette’s gear is so absurd.

    1. Holy shit that is sub-Jerry Lawler

37. Oh please please please tell me Jose comes out to ‘Sexy Boy’.

    1. He comes out to the empty nest theme

38. The JR heel turn is the next night, right?

    1. Yep “I can’t move my left eye!!”

    2. Might doze off to that Raw in the background after we wrap here.

39. I love how Nash and Hall parlayed WCW’s own stupidity into raises for themselves over the Razor/Diesel nonsense.

40. YES!! I’m Just a Sexy Septagerian!

    1. This is everything

41. JR saying Cornette is wearing Yoko’s tights is pretty funny

42. So why did we decide to watch Slamboree: A Legends Reunion?

43. Cornette: Best seller ever or worst seller ever?

44. The Goldberg/Lesnar from Survivor Series of its time!

45. Next week’s poll will be up right after this show is over. Stay tuned…

46. God that fucking Spartacus helmet on Simmons

47. Farooq is on the Superstar Line: Yes I know I look like a DAMN fool with this helmet on my heada,

    1. Brutal

48. Goddamn stream keeps freezing. Too many people watching this show clearly.

49. All time segment coming up here…

50. Oooh, here comes the good stuff.

51. Ahh yes forgot about this

52. Pillman never disappoints

53. My looooovable brother Owen

54. Bret Hart’s opinion on Brian Pillman: somethingsomething LIAR somethingsomething

55. Having this show in Philly at this time period was brilliant, creates such a perfect atmosphere especially with the roster they had.

56. WOOOO!!! Owen and his SLAMMY!!

57. Philly fans are unfazed by their city being insulted

58. King of farts, that’s great

59. “Well ya know Pill!”

60. Oh his proper theme can’t come fast enough.

61. Late ’96 Steve Austin, you magnificent bastard.

62. Classic proto Stone Cold.

63. If KOTR was the genesis for Austin, this was the opening salvo.

    1. It’s like they kept him cool the rest of the summer waiting for fall to heat him back up for bret

64. Austin was on fire there jeez. What a promo.

    1. My fiance who tolerates wrestling for me most of the time just popped for that Stone Cold promo

       1. It’s amazing the effect he had on non wrestling people..he forced you to watch him.

65. “And Philadelphia sucks! Cause I said so.”

    1. Best line ever, what impeccable timing.

       1. Just a tremendous capper

66. Owen’s greatest rib!!

67. Sunny over Sable, always.

68. JR getting really snarky now.

    1. A-hole JR is fun to me for some reason.

       1. One of my favorite snarky JR bits was summer of 98 during the HR chase he just says “Why don’t we ever talk about Sammy Sosa!”

          1. He was so on point and hip throughout all of 98. May have been his best year of announcing.

    2. Yeah that indictment line was gold.

69. Are the Smoking Gunns an underrated team in the history of the company or were they just the best team in a terrible era for tag teams?

    1. Both?

       1. Lol I was about to say the same thing.

       2. Yeah I guess they kind of go hand in hand. I guess I was more wondering if every else thought they were underrated like I did.

          1. I think because the era wasn’t strong for tag teams people don’t look at them like they do those late 80s teams with a stacked tag division. But when you watch their matches over their 3 plus years you see that they were a pretty solid team.

             1. You almost have to negate their first 16 months because they do really are given nothing of substance until January 95.

70. Love me some Bulldog & Owen, could tell they were have a blast during this whole year as a team.

71. KK just took Justin Tucker in round 7.

72. The Gunns cutting their hair helped their legitimacy too.

    1. The ‘staches made them look too 80s gimmicky goofy.

73. Nice match. Cool to see Owen and Bulldog get a face pop for the win.

74. This is pretty much it for Sunny as a manager.

    1. She had that cuppa coffee with LOD 2000.

75. Was Mark Henry’s theme a recycle? Sounds familiar.

76. He got his tights from Gemini from American gladiators

77. That Mankind interview was p great by the way.

78. Lawler just talking shit nonstop

    1. This is a Will dream match.

       1. With wonton violence

79. If this had been the year before, Lawler would’ve had the rat tail mullet.

80. Crazy bump by Lawler there.

81. Speaking of mullets, what’s the most 1996 moment of this show so far?

    1. Mark Henry: Olympian

    2. The cheesy CGI Mind Games skull logo.

    3. The In Your House set

    4. Triple h showing vulnerability

    5. Curt’s brown suit and collarless salmon shirt

       1. Looks like I need to pick out a new outfit for work tomorrow

    6. The Superstar Line

82. JR is awesome trying to 1up Vince on commentary

83. Vince salivating over the meaty thighs

84. How sad. Shawn is main eventing and Marty is taking post math bumps for Mark Henry.

    1. Right alongside doghouse HHH.

85. Marty Jannetty as heel in 1996 I just never bought.

86. The World’s Most Sexual Chocolate.

87. The classic Vince “screw up” saying the title won’t be on the line in Taker vs. Mankind as it is unsanctioned.

88. I stand corrected, those girls covered in Shawn merch are the most 1996 thing on display.

89. Pair of pretty awesome entrances.

90. This is by far the most active Undertaker/Goldust match I have seen.

    1. It is the best of the 1996 three from what I remember.

       1. Is it? Must have been thinking of the other ones then.

       2. Undertaker sure is showing more activity than he had before.

91. “Fuck the coat and hat! Go time!”

92. Nobody sells glitter to the face like taker

93. Not sure if anyone has asked this but are we surprised Buried Alive was announced before Mankind and Shawn here?

94. Goldust is just taking revenge on Undertaker for what he did to his Daddy the night he debut!

95. The quality of Undertaker’s matches is negatively correlated with the cheapness of his outfits

96. If Undertaker circa 1996 showed up in the ECW arena, I don’t care how smarky that crowd was, they would cheer like crazy.

97. Hey it’s Kevin Kelly!

    1. He has been all over this show, had just taken over as main Raw guy in August.

98. Can tell this version is the home video copy since there’s no ad for Buried Alive.

99. Foley nails this entrance.

100. I first watched the main event in 2004 after the Shawn two disc DVD (still possibly disc-for-disc one of the best matches-wise). To that point I had probably read SK’s review a dozen times and this one absolutely lived up to the hype, even 8 years later.

     1. SK stood by that “Mankind was supposed to win” rumor for quite a while.

        1. One of his many terrible takes that he at least finally walked back years later.

101. This is Shawn’s best match in 1996 I believe, and that’s saying something.

102. Kids wearing replica Shawn gloves. Peak 1996

103. 1 minute in, first great spot of the match, Shawn dropkicks Mankind while he’s holding up the mat and then stomps on him.

104. Both guys are in absurdly great shape here.

105. I love that the match starts to get wild almost immediately.

106. Given the run length of this show, makes me wonder if there was the PPV “Extra” after this one… I know they did that a bunch in 95 and 96.

107. Heh, there’s the little in-joke playing off Shawn’s tantrum against Vader the previous month.

108. This is just the first five minutes.

109. That suplex into the stairs is always gross.

110. The Goldust glitter all over them somehow adds to things.

111. Figure 4’s elicit Wooo’s even in 1996.

112. Like the knee work by Michaels

     1. You know Foley will sell the shit out of it too.

113. Great effect with the boot hitting the stairs.

     This ring is sooo stiff too.

     There is nothing wasted to this point in the match – Mankind running to escape SCM and grabbing the earn maybe (just from a corny standpoint, but hey, its ’96 WWF)

114. Lol did Perfect just have a stroke?

115. The timing in this match is all on point.

     1. Everything is right on… so crisp and precise.

        1. They are in perfect sync with one another.

           1. From two guys who didn’t have a lot of history together

              1. And sadly only had one other major match with one another, the August 11, 1997 RAW.

116. That punch to the chair was timed perfectly.

117. The psychology in this match is just great!

     1. Yeah all the attacking of the hand was tremendous.

118. It took me till maybe 2000 to see this match, it was on a Foley comp I won on eBay.

119. Forgot about the throw into the rails, lot of little moves here that are great bumps.

120. This match has gone 20 minutes and they could go another 20 given how great their conditioning is.

     1. Flies by too.

        1. The sign of a truly great match.

121. Mankind tossing Shawn in the casket to show it was empty is a brilliant set up for what is to come…

     1. Undertaker must have been laying beneath the casket the entire time.

        1. Yeah probably a removable bottom piece

122. 5-star kip-up by HBK

123. Table bump still rules

124. Underrated table break right there.

125. Speaking of brilliant transitions – you have the elbow drop setup as the perfect reason to then reverse into the table spot. I mean, this is just amazingly laid out psychology-wise.

126. Best Superkick Ever.

127. Love that super kick

128. Vader was definitely late.

     1. He’s on Vader time so he’s never late

     2. Very much so.

     3. I think Shawn covered pretty well though , and Hebner did too.

129. Sloppy ending aside, that is what I call a ***** match.

130. This should have led to a crazy six man on RAW between Sid/Shawn/Undertaker vs Mankind/Vader/Goldust.

131. Awesome match and the rest of the show really isn’t that bad.

     1. Knew the main event was good but was expecting worst from the undercard.

132. Here’s your poll for next Sunday!

     https://www.facebook.com/groups/PTBLiveChats/permalink/1821499071211851/

133. Vince’s call on this match living in the annals of WWF history was not hyperbole.

134. Dammit Shawn I don’t wanna see your ass tattoo!

135. Shawn would go on to be in a dark match at Buried Alive (it is not good either), 1996 was weird.

     1. Right, against Goldust, I believe its on Attitude Vol 3 Unreleased.

        1. Yes, it is 100% mailed in by both. The pits.

           1. Their match on the Friday Raw was blah too.

136. This match is so good, we all just stopped commenting lol

     1. Never mind my phone was being weird

137. This was a great time tonight, we shall do it again next Sunday for sure! Be sure to vote in the poll:

     https://www.facebook.com/groups/PTBLiveChats/permalink/1821499071211851/

138. I guess it says something about how they valued Foley that they didn’t have him lay down for Shawn.

     1. And this match had to open eyes big time as to what Foley could really bring. He was a massive pickup by them.

        1. Aside from Dec. 96 to May 97, where they really didn’t have much for him, outside of being Undertaker’s first challenger, he really was kept high profile.

139. The ironman match got so much praise from wwf back in the day but looking back Michaels had better matches on ppv in 96 with this one and the diesel match from good friends better enemies.

     1. I said before I think this was his best match of that year.

        1. Yeah I agree, and I mean I get why they hyped the ironman match for so many years as this all time great match.

     2. And Vader and Sid and the six man in July.

        1. Even Owen from February

           1. Great year for hbk

              1. He probably put even more pressure on himself to deliver due to the NWO & WCW kicking them in the ratings

140. I was at ****3/4 +++ for the main; I never hold the booked finish (so-and-so wins by :blank:) against a match, but DQ’s like this are tough to swallow (as another example, i loved Bad Blood 97 main event, clean pin even with hijinks – *****).

     1. That match was too perfect to dock. Plus the finish made sense given all the chaos and feuds going on.

        1. I suffer from Five Star Fear though, there’s a new Steven Graham podcast i guess i should listen to that covers this.

141. So I’ve started to go back and watch the WWECW shows and I remember JT and Scott talking about how bad Big Show looked during this time and now that I’m going back and watching it I see what they mean. I don’t see how he even made it to December before he took that break he looks so bad especially around his eyes, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a wrestler with such visible dark circles around his eyes like Show did during this time.

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