Daily Discussion Thread 6/29/17

Here is a place to chat throughout the day! For those in the US, any good holiday weekend plans?

In case you missed it, here is some audio to fill up your day!

Will, Steve & Kris break down some New Generation candidates for PTBN GWWE!

Andrew & Adam recap the 2017 NBA Draft: What were your takeaways?

Still to come today, we have an installment of Scott & JT’s Vintage Vault Refresh as they continue looking through 1995!

OK have at it!

138 thoughts on “Daily Discussion Thread 6/29/17

    1. I feel like any case you make for Bundy almost doubles as an argument for Sid.

      You’re asking if two and a half big (and likeable) monster years make a big enough impact to crack Top 100. I’m on the side that its enough for a low inclusion. Like late 70s-late 80s feels right.

      1. Yeah Sid is another interesting candidate. I think Bundy has more down and lean time than Sid too. Sid had a shit six months in 1995 but other than that his WWF stuff was always real fun.

    2. Very fringe candidate. Biggest thing going for him that was brought up in the pod is the aura and the fact that his big run coincided with a huge run for the promotion and therefore Bundy is a memorable figure in the wrestling world when related to his actual output.

    3. I listened and it brought up the pros, of how dominant he was for the buildup to wm 2. But he didn’t sustain that and the wm match with undertaker is brutal. If he makes my list it’ll be 90-100 range. Before listening, he wouldn’t have made my list.

    1. 2nd half of the show is really strong even though I didn’t personally have Okada vs Omega and Goto vs Shibata ranked as highly as many other people.

      1. I am trying to remain spoiler free on it and process it all as I watch it. I know the outcome of the last two matches but I have been trying to disremember the rest of the card.

  1. Reading the Observer and Dave says the SSlam main has for sure changed with the most likely path being Reigns vs Lesnar leading to Reigns vs Cena at Mania.

      1. Yeah, he hypothesizes that the plans could change to Joe vs Reigns since Joe has gotten over better than expected but either way, that is the current title picture.

    1. I wish they would change paths completely. With Cena doing the free agent deal, they could have Joe win the belt and set up Joe vs. Cena for the title at SummerSlam.

      1. That…is actually a really cool idea that never crossed my mind. They did AJ a year ago, they have to burn off Cena/Joe also sometime this year i’d hope.

  2. I’m looking around on Twitter and the dynamic between Ring of Honor and CMLL continues to be the funniest in wrestling.

      1. Another misspelling but Rey for Ray. I also enjoyed Ultimo Guerrero not knowing Taven’s partner’s name.

        It’s like watching two college freshmen roommates with no common interests try to be friends.

          1. What? No, not yet. I saw Drago & Fantasma (which raises a ton of questions).

            Why wouldn’t they just bring Maybach to tag with Maru? And use Ishimori as an X guy?

    1. I’m curious – and we’ll chat more on this leading up to the show – who everyone’s pick is for winning the US title?

      Personally, I really dislike them adding another belt, it feels very tacked on – BUT is something that would be a focus for future US tours I guess.

      I *thought* Elgin was somewhat out of favor, and I guess after he lost the IC feud with Naito he’s probably not getting back to that level. So maybe him?

        1. I think they paid that off when Lethal/Naito main evented that show for the IC title post split.

          It’s really weird seeing these guys take pinfall loses – weird in the sense of that it feels really big, but i dont know how theyre going to get around Naito, Omega, etc here.

  3. The story behind this is execs from Hot Topic were in Orlando for WrestleMania and saw Bullet Club and Elite and Young Bucks stuff all over the place, and asked WWE why those popular shirts aren’t part of their deal. By calling, they found out they weren’t WWE shirts so made the deals themselves with the individuals.

    1. It honestly boggles my mind that the Cody Rhodes shirt is sold out there also (and sold out at ROH shows this past weekend). I just never saw him inclusion as an actual merchandise draw.

  4. So, as I said in the facebook chat: You know Will is an absurd Lawler homer when he declares, “I thought his match with Piper was good! Shit finish, but a GOOD match.”

          1. Not sure… maybe just to bring extra eyes. I think it was Thursdays at 10pm.

            It was also weird how they basically started acknowledging it was taped by showing a brief clip of the upcoming match as they went to break.

          2. Yeah this show was technically shot the night after SS, in the can for two weeks.

            Also, I feel like Goldust was not as androgynous in the early vignettes as he would be when the calendar turned to 1996.

  5. Listening to For Your Consideration, while discussing Earthquake the guys kind of give him a bit of a pass because the WWF didn’t take tag teams as seriously as tbe NWA. I would argue that they somewhat did (to a point) UNTIL the era of the Natural Disasters/Money Inc etc. Obviously not ALL the blame falls on them, but some must.

        1. I wouldn’t give them all the blame, I think my point is that the WWF cared more about tag teams until these teams hit the scene. We’ll never know if that was a concious descision before or if they saw what they had and gave up on tag teams. That being said all the ppv tag team title matches of say 1992 killed my intetrest in tag teams. I can’t be the only one.

    1. I would agree with this. I did like their personalities as happy, confident mountainous faces but they never felt like a top team. Even as heels it felt like a step back for Quake, which I think hurt the optics.

    2. Could they be just left holding the bag instead of directly responsible?

      You’re talking the 91-93 tag era that directly corresponds to the business downturn and the steroid trials.

      I’d think, that’s probably more of a cost cutting measure to try to feature singles acts instead of tag acts as you sell more merchandise for two individual guys than for a duo who is one act.

      I always figured that was Real Life Getting in the Way.

      1. Yes for sure… but they also didn’t do much to change the perception. In 1993 things turn around for a bit with the Steiners and Headshrinkers coming into the picture. The Disasters were fine at treading water but there was an opportunity for them to really come to the forefront that never happened.

        1. It always felt like with WWE/F, that a great tag division is a luxury they won’t pay for unless business is staggeringly good.

      1. No I think they have Bliss retain and then she loses to Nia at summerslam. Then as a way to rebuild Bayley. Have Bayley slay the woman’s giant at royal rumble. Then Sasha vs Bayley at wm.

        What about you?

          1. Multi Match with Sasha. Nia can say she went through 4 women, while Sasha only beat her.

  6. More For Your Considerstion takes. When speaking about X Pac they talked about X Pac heat and how poor X Factor was. I just rewatched 2001 PPVs and was really into X Pac. Really dug his work and was always happy to see him. The X Factor stuff was so obnoxious but I think that was the point, and it stood out from everything else.

        1. Possibly one piece we can’t recall is that he was on TV a ton with DX and i think that’s where most of the fatigue came from. And then by 01 it was just “this guy has been on for four years straight” – enough already.

          I’m curious if when you watch Seth Rollins in ten years you’ll have a 180 also 😉

          1. He was certainly very overexposed. Nearly three full years of being on TV twice a week in prominent roles. I honestly think much of it was driven by the infux of ECW & WCW faves and it was felt that he was clinging to his spot due to being buddies with Hunter and Shawn when he should have been put aside for these new guys.

            Thing was he was just as good as all of them.

      1. I hated his matches at the time because I’d seem them all a billion times. The spin kicks, the crotch chops, the bronco buster … I disliked all of it.

        In hindsight there’s some cool stuff there, because I’m not seeing it every week. He’s one of those guys who probably got too much hate at the time and maybe a little too much love in hindsight, as I still think there are lapses in what I’d call “very good” X-Pac matches during the era. I also think he got a little overshadowed when the Benoits, Jerichos, Guerreros, etc. came over and were doing a lot of his stuff better.

    1. I hate the X-Pac Heat term… I think it was off the mark then and just got repeated over and over until it’s just a catch all for people that assume everyone hates who and what they hate,

      1. When I think “X-Pac Heat,” it’s an act that isn’t over in any way, shape, or form. Just zero reaction, period. (So like the SmackDown midcard today.)

        Except that’s really not what was going on back then, was it? X-Pac WAS getting booed. Vociferously. Granted, a lot of that was fueled by “I wish this guy would go away forever and I never had to see him again.” But the surest way for that to happen in 2001 would’ve been crickets. As long as he’s getting some kind of reaction, it can be capitalized on. The dude was supposed to elicit boos; criticizing the kind of boos he’s getting does strike as pretty stupid. Looking back, it does seem like a misnomer.

        Of course, we were spoiled babies who took everything for granted back then. I can remember Rock promos being called out for being repetitive, nonsensical, burying guys, whatever. We’re starved for anyone to show 1/10th of that much personality today. Somebody getting 2001 “X-Pac Heat” now would feel like the second coming of CM Punk.

        1. Yeah this is pretty spot on. I just hated when people would diagnose the heat to fit their view of a wrestler. “I hate XXXX wrestler and never want to see him again so I know THOSE boos are go away heat!”

          Like you said, dead silence makes sense but that wasn’t the case at all back then.

    2. I really liked the look he had when i rewatched a couple years back.

      Shaved with the blue gear looked like he took pieces of 123 Kid, Syxx and X-Pac and made a “Reconciled Waltman” look.

  7. NJPW World has the worst subscription model for any streaming service. If you order it at the end of the month you have to buy it again at the first when their billing cycle starts up again. Basically always subscribe to it on the 1st.

    1. It is annoying and DDT Universe operates the same way. I understand from the standpoint that someone couldn’t just get the whole G-1 for free and then bail but it is something you have to be cognizant of.

    1. Nice!

      I’m super in favor of breaking the January 1984 awareness gate WWE raised us on. MOAR 70s/early 80s stuff available please!

          1. Yeah, he is done, worse news from a bullpen perspective is that his 1st inning stats were especially atrocious.

  8. There’s been some silly bellyaching on Twitter today about Big Japan’s Ryogoku show.

    Mostly about the Deathmatch title getting the main event. It’s like, they actually let the fans vote on it and that match won. They want to please the fans buying tickets, not impress the Americans watching later for free.

    1. The big deathmatch is usually going to be the main event for BJW. Way it is and way it should be. I actually think as a fan of the Strong division that should be exciting as Hideki has been killing it in the 10-20 minute range matches. I am not sold on some of the names like Kawakami and Ueki they are going with here in prominent positions but you certainly can’t say BJW is a promotion that holds back opportunities for talent which is refreshing for arguably the 4th biggest promotion in Japan.

      1. I’ve been really enjoying Hideki’s run. His match with Obakayashi is one of my favorites this year.

        Ueki confuses me too, but they’ve needed a hardcore division youth movement.

      1. Yep he does.

        I remember thinking the last time I saw the Iron Man match that it was kind of plodding and not much fun. Or I’m thinking of the I Quit match at Breaking Point instead

        1. I wouldn’t call either all time classics but I liked those matches. The only match I didn’t like from theirs was from 09 was the Summerslam match.

          1. I really liked their iron man, but I thought their 09 feud went on too long with too many matches. I didnt care for the HIAC or SLam matches at all.

        2. I thought Breaking Point was a masterpiece until Cena no-sold everything and Orton tapped in a matter of seconds. Still, an awesome, uncharacteristically brutal match.

          1. They are trying to go with a “Big 4” of Thomas/Horford/George/Hayward. They’ll likely have to trade Bradley to make it work though.

        1. This is a rhetorical question, but why would Hayward be the lynch pin to him committing 5 years in Boston? Seems like an odd thing for George to speak out about. I mean, Hayward is good, but George is a top 10 NBA player.

          1. Better clarification being – I don’t see Hayward as a needle mover, so it’s interesting that he’s the key here.

          2. Hayward was one of two reasons Utah went from a cellar dweller to a second-round playoff team. I love the kid and would give a lot for him to stay with the Jazz. I think he’s more of a needle mover than he gets credit for. Underrated defender, really consistent offensive threat.

            He flies under the radar because of where he plays.

          3. Wants to make sure he goes to a serious contender? Those four with a young bench with Brown and Tatum is promising.

          4. I def think if Indiana isn’t getting Tatum as part of this, Boston would be smart to give up whatever future picks to get a guy like George (assuming he signs as a requirement for the deal).

    1. That’s a massive haul for a guy who may only be a rental for Boston. If he agrees to sign a long term deal before the trade, then I would pull the trigger.

  9. So I was thinking about Goldust to assess his place on the list, and, for whatever reason, the promo with Cody, Dusty and Dust came to mind. He didnt say anything I think except a munching noise, which cracked Dusty up in the promo. Such a great moment!

      1. Yeah, that was a poor decision to take it off the Rhodes Brothers to give to the Outlaws. The match at Battleground was awesome, though! They had great ones with the Real Americans on Raw as well.

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