Evening Discussion Thread 6/30/17

It’s the freakin’ weekend… and a holiday weekend for many! Lots going on tonight in the world of baseball PLUS NBA free agency hits at midnight tonight. Our NBA expert Andrew Riche will be hanging around to talk about everything going down, including the Ricky Rubio trade!

We are also planning a live watch tonight at 9PM… if you have a suggestion share it below.

Be sure to check out the NBA Team Draft Recap as you prep for the free agent madness!

And of course, a brand new Letters From Center Stage dropped today too!

Plus a PODBLAST live from the G-1 Special shows in Long Beach!

All that and more in this evening’s thread!

546 thoughts on “Evening Discussion Thread 6/30/17

  1. LIVE Watch! Tonight ! Choose among the following:

    IYH: Canadian Stampede
    KOTR 2001
    Beach Blast 1993
    One Night Stand 2006
    Capitol Punishment 2011
    GAB 1997
    Extreme Rules 2009

    …or ?

    1. Either Canadian Stampede or One Night Stand 06.

      Dont wanna jump ahead to KOTR…not there yet on my chrono watch
      F Capital Punishment
      GAB 97 maybe if enough people pick
      ER 09: ehh

      1. I can’t seem to get KOTR 2001 out of my system and feel like I’m gonna have to fire that up at some point this weekend. Leaning Canadian Stampede tonight. I don’t actually want to watch ER or Capital Punishment but they fulfill my loose criteria of June(ish) PPVs, albeit “non-traditional” shows.

    1. 2000 for me, because I was more invested in Mick as a character and the stakes were so much higher. But their 1997 run is like quintessential Attitude Era work.

  2. Lawler on commentary in his prime brought everything up a notch for me. his screams/yelps/complaining when the heels are getting beat up is some of my favorite memories from the era.

        1. Sounds like Mick. He genuinely liked her, and “credits” her with inflicting his second-most painful injury in the cage at Summerslam (slamming the door on his head).

    1. Dude Mick basically MADE chyna into a killer during this era. The craziest looking dude in the federation getting the shit kicked out of him by a baddass women.

  3. Summer of 97 is my most nostalgic era of wrestling. It was so fucking exciting and enjoyable. Just seeping into the internet, WCW red hot, WWF red hot, learning about ECW. Summer before HS senior year… was so awesome.

    1. Summer after senior year of HS for me. Watching so much wrestling that summer, hitting all the video stores renting whatever tapes I could find. And then dubbing them VCR to VCR.

  4. speaking off subject for a sec, if they really wanted to get Mike Bennett over with this new deal, why not let him use the piledriver? I get is a huge risk but ive seen him do it well, on the indys with FARRRR lesser workers. Just a thought. They could prob do a legit injury angle for the first time in like 20 years

    1. Because Paul is off the table, they do have some wiggle room to offer him more than what GSW’s cap hold of $15 million would be, but it’s not by that much unless it is a short term deal due to Iggy’s age.

      The Dreaded Repeater Tax is deathly for NBA owners, even Lacob’s superteam in Golden State, and ownership is starting to realize they are staring at an apocalyptic tax bill by 2019.Iggy was probably not happy with the initial numbers and wants $20 mil per year, something the Warriors simply aren’t in a position to offer on a deal that goes past two years.

  5. oooo a double countout. Hmmm. TBH they really dont do this type of finish anymore even though the network era kinda makes it ok as a setup for a bigger match. Still would have preferred a clean one.

    1. The original team can offer more, so there was obviously a monetary incentive to stay built in. Also, word is that Blake is not a fan of media blitz regarding his free agency and wanted to get it over with. Also, because the Clippers only took on the requisite 80 percent of Paul’s departing salary in the trade with Houston, the “super max” was immediately offered to Blake, and he took it. Now he can actually blossom as the point forward and leader of the team versus being second banana to Paul and having to stagger the lineup in order to get more shine.

  6. See this is the stuff they dont do anymore…. Brawling into the crowd after a match. They could easily have done it with Balor-Drifter this past week as an example.

    1. That would have to be the Mid Level Exemption (MLE) at $8.4 mil per year they were able to lock into on the day of the Paul trade by taking on partial guaranteed contracts to officially get over the cap and be eligible to use the MLE. That is a major discount for Iggy’s services, and he reportedly wants way more than that. I would be shocked if he actually took that.

  7. Hey, everyone, this is Andrew, one of the co-hosts for the NBA-Team Podcast.
    On my profile is the Podbean feed for our NBA-Team podcasts on the PTBN
    POP feed, and we put up our latest episode this week recapping the
    draft.

    We are on the verge of free agency madness and the silly
    season has already begun. Any questions about your teams, the league, or
    hell, even anything else for me or Adam (who might drop some quotes for
    me to you guys), give us a holler!

    Consider this a master post for all things NBA. I will be around throughout the night and the weekend to answer any questions or open up some NBA topics.

      1. No, because of two things:

        1. Paul leaving opened the door for Griffin to get that max extension. Although losing Paul obviously makes them worse, two max extensions for both Paul and Griffin to stay in LA was impossible, especially since the Clippers have used all of their exemptions and the stretch provision (which is what they call the “cap apron,” when you cannot take on new money under any circumstances without letting someone go). With Paul now gone, the space was there.

        2. Steve Ballmer simply did not want to give up yet on being competitive yet, especially with the Lakers’ upcoming superstar sweeptakes in 2018 coming up to try to overtake the Clippers’ place in the Pacific standings. This also occurred with Mickey Arison and Pat Riley in Miami during the infamous summer of 2014 when LeBron left but they wanted some semblance of being competitive so they kept Wade and Bosh. They dodged a bullet cap wise with the Bosh medical waiver, and Blake has certainly had medical issues throughout his career (his explosiveness has definitely sagged over the past two seasons), but Blake is still an All Star level player and he can now truly “max out” his abilities as the go-to guy.

  8. speaking of crusierweights these days, i think the WWE should do what WCW did with Ultimo Dragon when he was TV Champ. Start let him beat the heavyweights. Neville is probably their best pure heel

    1. Yeah they could do a lot worse than actually building those guys up and letting them branch out of the division. You saw WCW cruiserweights sometimes floating in and out of the TV and U.S. title scene.

      1. Orlando is sneakily one of the worst run teams in the NBA. They claimed to be rebuilding the right away, let continue to never get better and have no superstars. Just an awful franchise.

    1. That is the new method of Renegotiate and Extend, which only the Wiz can offer. Wall is obviously take it since his current deal that comes up in two years is well below his MVP level value. It does, however, put the Wizards into the tax if they re-sign or match a max offer sheet on Otto Porter Jr. It basically puts the Wizards behind the 8 ball to win right now.

    1. If they don’t get Hayward, the Celtics still have tons of directions to go in with the space they have, but one thing they would do first and foremost if they strike out on him is go after Paul George in a trade. After that, I would bet Marcus Smart would be given an extension so he doesn’t enter restricted free agency at the same time that Isaiah Thomas and Avery Bradley’s deals are up next summer (that is assuming Bradley is not part of a Paul George deal).

      I write all of this and George goes to the Thunder

      1. Certainly seems OKC is trying for a one year run that maybe changes PG’s mind. Oladipo, Sabonis and picks is fairly tame (similar to the Butler haul), which really spotlights what the fuck Danny Ainge is thinking.

        1. OKC took the gamble on the rental and are now completely out of future draft picks to give away for the next four years.

          I hate the deal for them, but Clay Bennett wants to win in the worst way.

          I also think this makes it more likely Russell renegotiates and extends this summer rather than the Thunder allowing both Russ and George to be UFA’s in the same summer, which would make PTSD-suffering Thunder fans want to vomit.

          1. I don’t know, I feel like you gotta take those shots for superstars – Oladipo wasn’t moving the needle for them.

        2. It also allows Oladipo to play in Indiana, where he played in college. The bad news is that he is a two guard option on a rebuilding team, which is similar to the toxic Orlando situation, when he was… a two guard option on a rebuilding team.

    1. Or hell, even main eventing WM in 2010. Against Shawn Michaels. In his last match, seven years into returning from a supposedly career-ending injury.

      Life is strange.

  9. Man and one more thing. Why would Lebron leave the East? The west is just gonna get more stacked and all the teams will continue to beat up on each other. Much easier ride in the east

      1. Very good, Im thinking about watching that one again myself soon along with the 3 previous Battlegrounds too. Summer of 1997 is one of my favorite stretches too.

      1. Very true, but he had good shooting seasons in Atlanta once upon a time. If he can reconnect with that and be the off ball distributor while Butler and Wiggins go ISO inside the 3 point line, it works. Still better than non shooter Ricky Rubio.

        1. im big on KAT. I think he can dominate the league. But the need to let him. He should go work with Hakeem NOW. Be the dominate center that he can be. But they have to play that way. If he can be dominate he can draw doubles and leave other guys open

      1. Teague is older than Rubio, but his injury history is not nearly as bad, he is still an efficient above average point guard, and he has played on a winning team in the past to help the younger team alongisde Jimmy Butler.

    1. The goldust match at Rumble wasn’t bad but I also wouldn’t say it was really good, more of a fun opening match. So maybe this was his last really good match.

  10. Ainge not looking good tonight.

    Oladipo was an awful fit in OKC and will likely do better in Indiana and Sabonis can score for a big but they really couldnt give them a combo from Bradley/Smart/Crowder/Brown and a pick or two?

      1. True but the Crowder contract is extremely favorable, like one of the best in the NBA, and they can match the salary and throw in a good 1st rounder.

    1. I’m curious what the picks are for OKC – *because* if they’re future enough, and Westbrook leaves, you’re talking something on par with the Nets pick in a couple years.

          1. The rumor was they could possibly get one if Hayward was going to sign but maybe they know that’s not happening.

          2. I feel like Bill Simmons isn’t taking this into account. He’s out there saying Indy had better offers , but there’s no way the Celtics were giving up one of those high picks for a one year rental.

      1. That is why Westbrook’s new deal last summer getting an exemption from the new CBA in terms of year to year salary increases (which was one of the things that did not allow the Thunder to offer Durant full max year to year last summer and came back to bite them) is so important now. Westbrook can now (here’s that phrase again!) Renegotiate and Extend once again, get more on the back end, and the Thunder does not have to sweat the possibility of both Westbrook and George being UFA’s next summer. Westbrook will be locked in. George is purely a rental, and he is very likely to sign with the Lakers anyway. It’s the worst kept secret in sports right now.

    2. Yea, now it’s Hayward or bust in terms of attracting big names this summer.

      If that doesn’t work, Renegotiate and Extend Isaiah and extend Smart, and bunker down with your Brooklyn picks and lean on Stevens to win with less again.

    1. man that Bret-Taker match is so good in terms of storytelling. I’d say its up there pretty high. Even the finish with Shawn having to look at Bret while he counts because there at the edge of the ring is great.

    2. Watched it recently… here were my grades:

      Mankind vs. Helmsley – 1997 ***3/4
      Goldust vs. Pillman – 1997 **1/4
      LOD vs Godwinns – 1997 **1/2
      Shamrock vs Bulldog – 1997 **3/4
      DOA vs Boricuas – 1997 *1/2
      Austin vs. Hart – 1997 ****1/4
      Undertaker vs. Hart – 1997 ****

  11. I love the RAWs in between Canadian Stampede and Summerslam going back & forth from the US & Canada. Especially the Halifax episode where Bret goes nuts on Vince and the Flag Match.

  12. See taker was capable of having great matches during this era but he had the most disappointing feud of his career imo during this time period

    Undertaker vs Goldust

    You would think a match between an undead super zombie vs a cross dressing gold obsessed Hollywood movie director would be interesting. But the matches were soooo meh

  13. CSNNE is having a live show and the panel are almost beside themselves about this trade.

    Its not the end of the world but if you miss on Hayward then you’ve went two offseasons will tons of cap space to end up with a declining Al Horford.

      1. I legit think the company today would freak the fuck out if someone/something started getting reactions approaching this. It’s something they can’t control, and therefore, too risky.

  14. Surprised they haven’t made many trips to Canada lately other than last year for Survivor Series/NXT Takeover Toronto plus maybe one RAW and Smackdown.

  15. Jeff Goodman reporting Celts offered the Pacers three 1st round picks (Not the Brooklyn or Lakers/Kings picks) and two starters, one of them Crowder, for George on draft night.

      1. If one of those starters was Bradley or Smart, absolutely.

        I would have even been willing to take the Memphis 2019 pick because Memphis might be awful by then.

        ALL of these deals were better than the Indiana deal. But Pritchard played hardball with Ainge and Ainge didn’t up the ante will throwing a fucking lob to OKC.

        The irony is that OKC may have ruined themselves too if they get no promise from George to stay because you basically gave up what you got for Serge Ibaka and wound up with nothing for it.

        1. Oladipo and Sabonis are better than Crowder and whomever the phantom other starter were (especially if those guys had just one year left on their deals).

          1. I disagree with this, especially if Bradley or Smart were one of those starters. Crowder is overrated, but so is Oladipo. Sabonis was a looter in a riot: He started games at the 4 because they literally had no one else. He might not even be good.

          2. Bradley is a FA after this year – Indiana isn’t interested in him in a rebuild. Agree Crowder is wildly overrated.

        1. Eh, they could be ok, but two years out lessens their appeal. I mean, even if the C’s don’t get another big guy now, they certainly have some chips, damn.

  16. It occurs to me that doing the whole shades of grey thing with Austin vs. the Hart Foundation shows a lot of confidence in the product. Austin and Bret had just done the double turn at Mania, yet they’re not trying to “protect” the new status quo. Just letting it play out organically and making the most of this nuclear crowd reactions.

    1. The Pacers knew they were going to be pennies on the dollar thanks to George’s admission to want to leave killing all of their leverage. Unfortunately, they got exactly what they feared they would get :Pennies.

      1. George absolutely fucked them over but why take on that awful Oladipo contract? I’d take three mid 1sts for that or at least a younger, cheaper reclamation project.

          1. Yeah, Foley said it best at one point… Raw was better than Nitro for most of 97 but nobody knew to check it out until Tyson showed up and brought the eyes.

  17. This was in that weird period where all the WWF PPV shows took place in like the first 10 days of the month, from King of the Ring through D-Generation X in December.

      1. I think somewhere in there for me.

        Jericho is going in my top 10.

        My tentative Top 10 right now would go-

        Michaels
        Savage
        Austin
        Undertaker
        Hogan
        Cena
        Sammartino
        Hart
        Backlund
        Jericho

          1. Some people build from the ground up. I find it’s easier to work down, and as I fil in spots I come across a guy and look at who is above him and can then assess “does this guy rank higher than anyone I have placed so far”.

          2. Yeah I think with something like this, that is easier for sure. It is hard to start at #100 because you are more likely to know the top 20 guys than the bottom 20 at first glance.

      1. Yeah the trade deadline deal had Brooklyn’s pick (allegedly, there is no doubt Ainge is the source for this) that Indiana declined (again allegedly), which of course turned out to be #1.

        This deal is three shitty first rounders; how doe the C’s not offer the Lakers/Kings one given all the uncertainty (and being maybe two years away)?

        1. Because Ainge played his cards too close to his vest and will probably wind up dying on the sword that is “The Brooklyn Picks” (Brown, Tatum, and let’s say hypothetically Mo Bamba). That is still a great trio to build with, but if his first idea was to package them for a superstar, then Ainge failed his organization. The league got so sick of the ad nauseum of Ainge’s leverage and it wound up backfiring on him. GM’s either wanted all those picks or no deal would be done, whereas the same GM’s were willing to take lesser deals elsewhere simply because they didn’t want to hear that they got bamboozled by Boston because of those picks.

          Very complicated innuendo, but in the end, AInge screwed himself by getting too good of a haul during his rebuild and not being risky.

          1. I truly believe that Ainge believed he could land Durant and would use the picks to get another star. After that failed, he now has to use the picks and hope he hits a home run.

          1. Interesting, I never knew they did a title match on Raw with those guys after Taker’s win.

  18. So, Sir Riche…with the Bulls going back to the Tim Floyd era, time to stack up on some Wolves’ and Bucks’ merch?

    And when are you seeing “Baby Driver” or “The Beguiled?”

    And Happy Birthday!

    1. First, thanks for the birthday shout out. I’m still looking for my veteran minimum in free agency once all the young guys take the max money I used to earn!

      Second of all, I watched Baby Driver already. It’s phenomenal. Watch it ASAP.

      Now about basketball! The Wolves are in a better position cap wise and talent wise in the short term. That is a playoff team on paper right now if the Jeff Teague deal is a real thing. The Bucks are also a playoff team and will be much more cap strapped due to some not so great deals involving Teletovic, Dellavedova, and soon to be extended Tony Snell. But here is my caveat: Giannis will be the best player in the NBA by 2020, barring injury, and it won’t even be close. He is impossible to guard already. The other barrier for the Bucks is the fact that they have bickering between two owners, a coach who has a big ego, and no GM for the time being. They ride things by the seat of their pants, but they always draft on potential, length, and pure unadulerated talent. Imagine the Thunder in the late 00’s if you only had Durant. In the long term, they will eventually put a terrific, athletic, defensively minded team behind the Greek Freak and that team will blossom in the East. The Wolves are really good right now, so get their tickets at the box office today.

          1. Teague to Min? Is he better than Rubio? Riche – you think they Justin wanted a better shooter?

          2. Right – I get the need to space the floor but Rubio as a pure facilitator seems like a better fit. They must have not wanted to pay him. Teague isn’t cheap either. Idk. Weird move.

          3. Rubio is a better passer and defender.by quite a bit, but Teague is a better scorer and has been an all star. The fit is not ideal, but he can keep defenses honest at the perimeter and he still has quickness whereas Rubio beats you side to side.

        1. That requires a buyout and stretch, which has been a nightmare for every team that uses it (ask the Clippers and Pistons how that worked out for them with Delfino and Josh Smith). Melo is gonna ride that money train all the way until it is done in 2019.

          1. They might have to find a way to make it work. Melo will be 35 then. How much value will he have then?

    1. It would be very close between them and the Wizards. The Wiz have no bench and now won;t have the money to fix it after Wall and Porter get paid, but their starters can match Boston’s.

      ALL of them are still well below Cleveland barring some catastrophe like Kyrie getting traded or LeBron getting hurt.

        1. He was going to get paid no matter what because his cap hold as a top 3 pick going into his fifth year was quite high. Sa,e reason the overrated Victor Plaxico got 20 mil per year from the Thunder in October.

    1. kinda weird booking though. I thought he actually had a solid match with the Rock at No Mercy but than if i recall correctly he went into the hardcore division…

      1. The nation was getting stale so once crush and savio were booted and godfather dlo and Ahmed joined it freshened them up and you had crush and savio getting there groups together like you said it was something fresh and exciting.

  19. There were so many little things about this time period…the general tone of the shows was hostile and chaotic…everyone is pissed off. I’m not even sure 98 is like this to this level

          1. Believe Scott mentioned it on the WM 13 Vault. He was right though..it’s all the little details

  20. Curry officially gets the designated player exemption which he was eligible for because he won MVP in back to back years. 5 years, $201 million, no player option on the fifth year. His Bird rights allow the Warriors to retain Durant at just below the super max,which means that Curry got sweet revenge for getting underpaid on a low extension for years.

  21. For the players re-signing with their teams :

    Patty Mills agrees to sign a 4 year, $50 mil deal with Spurs

    Shaun Livingston agrees to sign a 3 year, $24 mil deal with Warriors

    Nene agrees to sign a 4 year, $15 mil deal with Rockets

    Blake Griffin agrees to sign a 5 year, $173 mil deal with Clippers

    Tony Snell agrees to sign a 4 year, $46 mil deal with Bucks

      1. He is one of the most efficient shooters in the league, and Milwaukee took a chance on him after dealing MCW right before the season started and Snell started at SG. He also plays good defense. Milwaukee actually got him on a discount by most standards.

  22. Guys (and girls) – just as a heads up, there will be a fresh Saturday thread up in the morning, which will cover the entire day’s worth of events, culminating in NJPW G1 Special in USA 8pm – midnight ET LIVE discussion right here at Place to Be Nation

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